If any of you have a real argument to make, then make it. Otherwise, why not save yourself the effort of reading and and commenting on this or the other blogs?

This is not an acknowledged branch of the LDS Church by the Authorities. God does not do anything “in secret” like this. He already has many Prophets and Apostles, and their works are open, transparent, and purposeful.

This is a bunch of pseudo intellectual baloney, and there is no real purpose for it besides the self-aggrandizement of the individuals involved in propagating this useless information that has no real purpose besides adding confusion to a world already ripe with it.

We are all, in regards to our very own lives, Prophets and seers. Once you start claiming to have received knowledge or have had a vision that is for people outside of yourself and for the purpose of governing your very own family, you are claiming to be a spiritual leader with authority from God, which is wrong no matter how you spin it. There’s no way around this fact. So saying that you have received visions from spiritual beings, translations from God, and inspiration with knowledge for others besides yourself, you have been mislead (unless you are a Prophet or Apostle of the Church, which you are not).

I predict that if this member (and you) were excommunicated, the excuse would be “well, that Bishop and his councilors just didn’t understand. They didn’t pray about it. They were lead astray ‘through the Beast’”. If this were to escalate all the way up to the General Authorities of the LDS Church, only to reach the same conclusion, the excuses would then become much more revealing. I’d predict along the lines of “The Leaders have been lead astray, and we are now the new replacement Authorities on earth”.

Why don’t you reveal, right now, whether or not you will ever be excommunicated from the LDS Church by the Authorities who have the power to do so? If you say you have received revelation that these things are all true, and also that the current Prophet and Apostles of the LDS Church are truly appointed by God himself to lead the Church, and you are excommunicated, all of your arguments become contradictory and false. That’s why you will never do it.

It just seems so typical. People believe, for whatever reason, that they are much more intelligent than they really are, and that God himself has chosen them for a special mission (like killing off in-laws, family members, etc, in the name of God for some purpose of preparing the Earth for some great thing or other).

This is just another example of mingling the philosophies of men with Scripture. Nothing more.

The LDS Prophet and Church hold no authority over me and I find most of their claims to be absurd.

However I do not normally share my beliefs along these lines with LDS friends, because I wish to respect them, no matter how absurd what they think happens to be.

Frankly I don’t think that translating rocks and symbols this way has any credibility, not for Joe Smith and not for others. Joe Smith was extremely intelligent and well read, he had read the bible several times before he was a teenager, the intellectual capacity this created in him was tremendous, and frankly he was an amazing and charismatic person. I hate to say it, but just because he could get away with such tremendous fraud does not mean that others can or should.

Reading the letters of Smith and comparing them to these blogs, it becomes clear that Smith was far more intelligent that anyone involved in this Higher Law thing, but even among mormons in his day he was a controversial figure and many mormons before his death considered him a fallen prophet. Every second in command right hand man to Joe Smith had a major falling out with Smith, you see Mormons take it for granted that he was accepted and loved, he was controversial even among his own people, but history has been re-written by the LDS church to make the story a little smoother.

Smith did not succeed, under him the church became a target of the state and of vigilante violence. He wrote of a religious system which was passed father to son, but in the end the structure of leadership was closer to that of a corporation than to a church. The Church as Smith made it is gone long ago and what is left is the reformed version.

If things did not go smooth for Smith, who was a charismatic genius, they will certainly not go smoothly for the Higher Law folks, who seem to be less charismatic and less well educated than Smith.

This is my observation and opinion, you don’t have to share it.

The claims made at the Higher Law blog are no less absurd than the entire LDS church from my perspective, so I am not going to be surprised when gullible LDS buy into it or when intelligent people reject it. However, knowing God and how God works, I do feel sorry that most of you will die before you have ever felt the true spirit.

You need to cite specifics if you’re going to make an argument. You can’t just generalize.

For example, you say: “in history, prophets have been political and spiritual leaders of their people.” Can you give me one example where the prophet was acting as the political leader because of religious authority? The only possible example I can imagine you’re referring to would be Joseph Smith when he was voted to be mayor of Nauvoo. If you read a little about how that happened, however, you’ll see that his election was hardly a religious mandate and had nothing to do with his religious office (except inasmuch as the voters knew he was the prophet, which certainly would have influenced their decision). He was not “called” to be mayor, he was elected mayor by the citizens, just like any other political officer. He recognized the distinction between the two offices; one does not presuppose the other.

You also state that “in order to be a true seer, you must be called to that position through the Priesthood.” Again, can you provide a single example of scripture or instruction from the Church that supports your conclusion? The prophet, seer and revelator and president of the Church obviously must be called to that position, but that doesn’t mean the gift of seership is limited only to the president of the Church or those called by the Priesthood. If you read the articles I linked to in this post (here and here) you’ll see that the term “prophet” does not only apply to the leader of the Church, nor does the term “seer” apply only to those called by Priesthood authority. They are both gifts to be sought after from God by every person. Can you provide any evidence from the Church that disputes this? Keep in mind, almost every case in scripture of someone exercising the gift of seership did not receive a “calling” through the “Priesthood,” at least not as you’re using the terms (i.e. read about Mosiah, the brother of Jared, etc). Seership is not a position, it’s a gift. Don’t confuse the two.

Finally, you say “this man will be excommunicated from the church.” Are you a prophet now? Or maybe a seer? How can you know things to come before they have happened? Have you received instruction from God on this matter? Have you even asked? People get released from callings all the time. Do you know it has anything to do with this? If so, how? Just because you know his home teacher? Is his home teacher the bishop? Did he divulge confidential information to you that is between Jason and his bishop? Your attempt to claim some kind of inside knowledge and designate yourself as some kind of authority on this matter is not only incorrect, it’s deplorable and not befitting of a true Christian.

It still just amazes me how hard it is for some people to believe that this could even be possible. What’s more amazing is with all the emphasis the Church puts on receiving revelation (i.e. answers to prayers), with the heavily cited “Book of Mormon challenge” (Moroni 10: 3 – 5) which gives very clear instructions on how anyone can “know the truth of all things,” they still resort to visceral, emotional response to anything that challenges their prejudices and preconceptions rather than actually doing as Moroni says. Why the knee-jerk reactions? Has the Higher Law blog said anything that challenges the authority of the Church, its divinity, its mission, its leadership or its truthfulness? No. Then why the fear? Suppose the Higher Law turns out to be false (hypothetically). What has actually happened related to the Higher Law that would constitute an offense requiring excommunication? Nothing.

You people need to stop letting your emotions and prejudices rule your actions. If you haven’t prayed to know if it’s true, there’s only one thing that needs to be done. If you have and you’re absolutely convinced that it’s false, then don’t believe it. You don’t have to attack the messenger, or worse, the children of the messenger to give yourself some false sense of security. There’s no threat here. Why the violent reaction?

Frankly, I’m appalled that you people call yourselves “good” members of the Church.

(I’m not speaking only to you, Richie, but to everyone who is reacting from a position of pure emotion and not from spiritual confirmation.)

I didn’t say that the church has nothing to do with temporal well being. Obviously it is very concerned with those kinds of things. However, those are humanitarian concerns, not economic/political. The church does not and cannot engage in political policy making and can only be involved in the economics of society by influence through its members (i.e. teaching correct principles and letting them govern themselves). It stays well clear of engaging in any official activity that could be construed as politically motivated or else it faces losing its non-profit status with consequences that could include loss of property (including meeting houses and temples). Remember, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers…” etc.

There’s a very clear distinction between the church’s religious authority and its temporal humanitarian efforts, but that doesn’t mean the two are mutually exclusive and no one has claimed they are.

Thanks

This means more to me that you probably realize. I’m undaunted by the negative commentary that’s gone on, it doesn’t change my conviction at all; but it’s always nice to know that every once in a while, someone comes along who can at least entertain the idea that some or all of this stuff just might be true, or at the very least, that the Lord works on a much broader scale than just the limited scope of “religion” that we humans have falsely created over the course of generations of spiritual and political “land-grabbing.”

I’m firm in my religious convictions and no less firm in my convictions regarding the Higher Law. To me, their purposes are one in the same–to bring God’s children back to Him–though by decidedly and intentionally different means.

So thanks for being open and available. I won’t impose my convictions on you, but I hope you and others will continue to at least consider the things being shared openly without the improper burdens of prejudice.

I’m surprised by how often you have to repeat yourself to explain that your claim is not of a religion. It’s NOT hard to understand what your saying, its very clear. The higher law, is meant for ALL people, and not all people are of one religion or one at all–
It’s amazing how far people will go to misunderstand something out of fear of something they can’t wrap their heads around… Obviously the information that you claim to have could be beneficial to the world, and when we all have the chance to read it we can decide for ourselves. I believe the idea that Lord works outside of one specific religion or leader is true. Anyone who can’t grasp that concept is small minded.
Its a big world people…

I pray the Lord watches over you and your family, i can only imagine that you will need Him more then ever.